NH Senate Says No To Smoking Ban - On Principle!
Submitted by Denis Goddard on Mon, 2006-04-10 08:50.
As you've seen in the blogposts on this site, the New Hampshire Senate rejected a bill that would have banned smoking in restauants and bars.
To get an appreciation for the "Liberty Culture" in New Hampshire, you need to understand why this bill was defeated in the Senate. The Senators were not focused on whether or not a ban would be good or bad for business. The Senators were focused on the real issues: property rights, personal choice, and economic freedom.
Listen to the speeches made on the Senate floor when this bill was being voted on. Ask yourself, "when have I ever, ever heard my legislators talk like this?"
- mp3 Senator Letourneau, quoting the movie Braveheart: Freedom! Freedom! You can take my life, but you can't take my freedom!
- mp3 Senator Boyce discusses the "anything to save one life" fallacy, suggests we follow the money, reminds that prohibition doesn't work, and invokes the rights of the minority/tyrrany of the majority
- mp3 Senator Barnes says he doesn't care if killing this ban is "political suicide", he must protect Liberty, and tells those restaurant owners in favor of the ban: "don't make us tell you what to do!"
- mp3 Senator Flanders asks, "What's next, they can't serve eggs because of the cholesterol?"
- mp3 Senator Gallus reads a letter from a Free Stater, right there on the Senate floor!
- mp3 Senator Johnson blasts the rude, disrespectful paid lobbyistys
- mp3 Senator Kenney says market forces should dictate the rules, and that smokers have rights, too



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Vote with your Feet
I will preface this comment by stating that I do not smoke, and I think it's a dirty habit.
Despite the term "public house," pubs and bars are privately owned property. As such, the owners of such establishments should be free to decide whether or not to make their establishment smoking or non-smoking, or to create sections or times for each.
People have the right of free association, and if you do not want to go to a smoking establishment, it is your right to do so: no one is forcing you to patronize or subsidize these establishments.
In greater Portsmouth, there are, out of 42 establishments with liquor licenses, 7 that are smoking. The market is working and, if we allow it to work, a balance will be met between smoking and non-smoking establishments that is roughly the same ratio as the percentage of smokers to non-smokers that go to such establishments.
The previous comment about having to level the playing field is utter crap. Frankly it annoys and depresses me to read such comments related to something that affects the state I've lived most of my life in.
Every time a non-smoker goes to a smoking bar, he or she is saying, with money, that the atmosphere, food, alcohol, location, service, or any number of factors are MORE IMPORTANT than their hatred of smoking.
What about the workers? No one has a RIGHT to a job. They, too, have decided that tips, schedule, benefits, the ability to smoke on the job, and any myriad of other things are more important than working somewhere else or being unemployed. Hell, most of the waitstaff I know (at bars) smoke. I believe people have property in themselves, and have a right to labor for themselves, but not the right to a job - no one has to furnish another with employment. Read Progress and Poverty some time.
Freedom first.
Hello All you smokers are
Hello
All you smokers are whining that your rights have been taken away. That is far from the truth you still have the right to smoke.
I have the right to clean air in public places how ever it has been trampled on for years. Finely my rights have been returned and protected. The workers of the bars have a right to clean air also I think any factory would be shut down if they forced workers to work in such conditions. I know you'll say they have a choice they don't have to work there. So do you smokers, you don't have to smoke there, you can step outside. Ive even heard smokers complain about the smoke in some clubs, now how do you think a person who likes to be smoke free feels? Then we go home get in bed and smell that nasty smell smoke. So we get up throw our clothes out of the bedroom because they reek. We get back in bed and its still horrible. So we get up and take a shower because the smell is in our hair, and we cant stand the smell.
Your right to smoke stops at the end of my nose.
What if I liked the smell of pepper spray, ammonia, skunk scent or any other horrible (to most people) scent, Now imagine if I went into a public building and released a huge cloud of it so that I may indulge my preference or addiction to this smell. Yes your right I would be thrown out and the law called on me. My right to breath this ends at your nose. Just as your right to pollute the air (smoke) ends at my nose. We are both free to do as we chose as long as we don't interfere with each others rights. There are all kinds of laws on the books that support a persons right to be protected from, or free of something they find offensive or harmful. Such as loud music, nudity, swearing, reckless endangerment all perfectly legal as long as you don't infringe on some ones right to quite etc etc.
Can't vote with feet when there are no alternatives
While your area has only 7 smoking establishments out of 42 total, yours is the exception, not the rule. Voting with your feet in that area is a simple matter.
I lived in California shortly after they instituted their smoking ban. Prior to that time, it was all but impossible for a non-smoker to enjoy ANY indoor social interaction. The bars, the restaraunts, the clubs, the bowling alleys, and anything other than fast food joints and theaters were decidedly against non-smoker patronage.
Within a couple months, opinion turned around. Those few establishments that were exempt from the rules began losing business. People go out for social interaction, not cigarettes.
The same was true in Ohio, which enacted similar legislation a few years later.
I agree, people should vote with their feet. But, where the majority opinion isn't even on the ballot, voting at the polls is the best alternative.
In 33 states, a majority of people have voted for some sort of smoking ban. It is VERY clear that people do not want to be exposed to cigarette smoke, yet the industry regularly and continuously ignored this request.
This type of legislation leveled the playing field. Were it repealed, most of the facilities would probably continue to prohibit smoking indoors, or in non-designated areas, based on foot-votes.
When the entertainment industries increase in every state that has enacted a ban, it's pretty fair to say that the foot-vote agrees with the democratic vote.
freedom should always come before all else.
Non-smokers are not FORCED to go to business' that allow smoking, they are free to choose another that is non-smoking and vise versa.
Due to the change people can no longer choose to go to either, because there is no choice anymore, it has been taken away.
Non-smokers may be glad of this, but the fact remains YOU HAD A CHOICE of weather or not to frequent business' that "permitted" their customers to smoke. Think about it as a matter of quality of service, if you don't like the service don't buy it, if enough people agreed with you, the business would either fold or change their policy.
It should not be a matter for our government to decide for us, but a matter for local patrons and business owners.
It all Comes down to having the ability to make a choice. You should be enraged that another choice has been taken away.
Flay half-mast for mourning loss of free country
Haven't heard about it already, now you have. State (NATIONAL) mourn the loss of freedom and the infringement of American’s rights day. If not for some current reason or some ban, than one of the other loss of freedoms that have been stripped away and/or the infringement of American’s rights. Or just because you're currently unhappy with government operations. Included: Tainted products. Boarder problems, sin tax on gas & tobacco, health bans, etc. JANUARY 1ST, fly the flag half-mast for the State (NATIONAL) mourn what America use to be and was meant to be. Don’t have a flag you can lower. Roll it around the poll and tie it down for a day. Don’t own a flag, buy a little one and do the above. And send this on so everyone knows about it. Lets send a message to this state government and to federal government that WE ARE NOT HAPPY.
This is a fascist and evil
This is a fascist and evil law....the democrats (and I am/was one, so I'm ashamed,) are in no way representing the interests of the people of the state of New Hampshire...I've lived here all of my life and since they came into office I've seen NOTHING GOOD happen... Listen, I believe there should be smoking permitted bars and smoking prohibited bar, by choice of the OWNER. Considering 75% of the bartenders I know smoke, it shouldn't be too hard to get staff. ;) For all you who agree with this law (well, obviously most of you aren't really from NH, you're from Mass and migrated up here after ruining your state,) wait for the trans fat tax, the fax on BEING fat, and of course, I always wear my seatbelt anyhow, but mandatory seatbelts and probably sales tax on its way. Let's linch Lynch...he's horrible!
smoking ban
I Think they want to change nh from live free or die to do as we say
I live FREE of smoke so I DON'T DIE!
This is the most ridiculous thing ever! I am SO glad that we passed the smoke free in the Senate this past week! I live in NH and I should be able to be FREE from smoke! If I choose to go to a restaurant or club, and I don't smoke, I can't go there..but if a smoker wants to smoke they can take themselves OUTSIDE, which I can't do! So who is "free" if this law is opposed? ONLY THE SMOKERS!! NOT FAIR! So all of you opposing this, you need to rethink your views of "Live free or die!" I choose to live FREE of SMOKE so I DON'T DIE!!!
The notion that a bar owner
The notion that a bar owner can allow a carcinogen to float around his establishment is a 19th century notion of freedom.
Once the data on second hand smoke became available, the notion that you can't pass laws like this all petered out. And guess what, whenever laws like this got passed somewhere, more people ended up quitting. Thus lowering the carcinogenic exposure for us all, thus saving lives "somewhere".
(Scientists are fairly convinced that lung cancer is very close to 100% exposure. The top culprit remains direct smoking, 2nd highest culprit is secondhand smoke, 3rd highest culprit is radon in our cellars. There are other smaller culprits.)
Who's Free.
A restaurant or club is a public place BUT privately owned so it is NOT public property, therefore this bill is a strike against freedom and our state motto of 'Live Free Or Die' (if not somehow ironically). The owner of a business should be able to conduct business as he or she sees fit and if alowing a legal (as far as I know) activity such as smoking or drinking (also "bad for your health" both first and secondhandily)then the owner should have the right to do so. right?
smoking ban
u really piss me off' why can't u go outside. why don't u check out www.freelunch.com ' and get a life.
?
That whole comment makes NO sense at all...If I am a NON-SMOKER, then I should have to go outside to not breathe smoke? OK...
I choose to live free from smoke, and for my children as well to not have to live with unhealthy lungs or die from secondhand smoke because some crazy republican's idea of freedom means you should be able to smoke in public...maybe next we should pass bills allowing people to have sex in public, masturbate in public, smoke crack, shoot heroin, steal things from anyone they want, kill people randomly..I mean, if we follow live free or die, why not allow all of those things too? They are your right to make those choices as well, but they are illegal for a REASON! The same should go for smoking and YEAH for the reps who are supporting this bill being passed! It is ABOUT TIME we got some INTELLIGENT people in the positions of power!!! (You think it is concidence that NONE of the reps who voted against this bill last year got re-elected? NO WAY-THE VOTERS SPOKE LOUD AND CLEAR!!!)
All of you idiot smokers can go kill yourselves in the privacy of your own homes or cars and leave the public places to the rest of us normal, civilized individuals!
You don't have the RIGHT to
You don't have the RIGHT to go to a privately owned bar. While open to the public, it is private property. If it is in the best interest of the business to allow smoking, the owner should be free to bar. Allowing bar owners to CHOOSE to allow smokers to smoke in their establishment does not equate to REQUIRING them to do so. This issue has nothing at all to do with "public health" but is completely about property rights and individual liberty. You are free to open your own smoke-free venue.
I'm not from NH, but I think its a damn shame if this bill did eventually pass. I don't smoke. I do not go to bars or restaurants where people do smoke. This, however is my personal preference, and should not be forced upon business owners.
Your argument is completely absurd. I say the following: No smoking at the DMV office = acceptable policy (Though I'd rather not have the DMV at all). Smoking ban on private property = another blow to liberty. Smoking ban in socialist alcohol sale venues = acceptable.
Stay armed, stay free.
Liberty or death!
You are know one to talk!
You are know one to talk! You are far from normal!!
Everyone seems to cry oh second hand smoke is killing me. You people are probably the 400lb fastfood junkies and just want some one to blame your health problems on besides yourself. These so called statistics they claim to have done,what are they exactly. Stop and think about where they come from. out of a 100 people where do they live now? Where were they raised? Where were the parents raised? Did they ever go out into a city socially where coal minds are? You Know I am just so tired of everyone blaming everything wrong in this world on ciggerette smoking. Maybe if congress did more to help the people with regulating quit smoking aids or get Ciggerette companies to stop adding all the additives that make smoking addictful in the first place maybe people like you would have to find something or someone else to blame.(like yourself)
We are invited to patronize
We are invited to patronize Bars and restaurants! Go where you wish, either a smoke in or smoke free. Bans are not the American Way! Freedom of Choice is paramount.
smoking ban
us idiot smokers pay the same dam taxes as non smokers' fair is fair so why don't u and your kids think about that'oh taxes don't count' only to the state cause they like the tax money for the schools for your kids and grandchildren
smoking ban
I Don't Think Democrats Should Be Allowd To Vote
smoking ban
Ever thought of taking your stupid ass to another state.
Fascism?
how is this law not fucking Fascist? If you don't want to give money to a business that freely allows people to smoke within their walls then go somewhere else!
Makes perfect sense....
I mean, I should have the option to go NOWHERE to eat out or have a drink because of some crazy idiot's notion that smoking is a right that you should be able to impose on everyone else around you!
By this being a PERSONAL right, that means your actions should NOT affect MY personal rights, but in the case of smoking, it DOES! That is why this bill is the right thing to do.
As I said before, you can CHOOSE to go outside to smoke, but I can't CHOOSE to not breathe your damn smoke in the restaurant. Therefore, you are impinging on MY rights and that makes it WRONG!
smoking ban
the dam democrats brag about making more tax money on us smokers so why the hell should we stop smoking in bars'there all a bunch of assholes
smoking ban
now see what u did' pass a smoking ban so the democrats and state can put a tax on candy and take more money away from children. are u proud of yourself.
Get real..
Anon-if you have a point to make, why not say your real name??
Put up or shut up moron...
Candy...., what an idiot...
smoking ban
I could quit smoking and drinking and some somebody could run me over and kill me ' we better get them cars off the road
smoking ban
why the hell should we go outside in the to smoke'i think this is gonna cause a lot of big problems the police will keep busy 'all it's gonna take is a bunch of non smokers bragging in a bar . this is really going to be interesting
nh smoking ban
I think there trying to change the state motto from live free or die to (do as we say)
its live free or die for a
its live free or die for a reason. what's next changing the states motto?
Exactly! Live FREE or die!
LIVE FREE OF SMOKE, OR YOU DIE!! That is exactly the point, it should be our new state motto, maybe I will suggest it!! :)
smoking ban
I Don't care what u or the democrats say'this smoking ban is a bunch of shit.so if a kid dies in a car accident' why don't we ban driving'smoking in bars should be the owners rights' not somebody else's
candy
the dam democrats'they won't give up'they want to kill smoking and they know there gonna lose tax money'so lets make the children pay we will put a tax on candy. I CAN'T BELEIVE THIS ' WHAT THE HELL ARE DOING
smoking ban
who's the democratic woman from grafton county who wants to tax candy 'must be the same one who wants to ban smoking. can somebody get her head out of her ass' so we can see it.
smoking ban
in response to your comment' I think we should get all the smokers we can' and protest this smoking ban for a day in concord. please respond to ( dartdave15@yahoo.com) so i can see how many smokers are for this.
Why not come meet us non-smokers in support of the bill?
Then they can see the caliber of people(like the drunk below you who replied or the anons who can't even post their name, only make stupid generalizations and no sense at all) who are supporting the smoking side and then they will see that we non-smokers really ARE the future(like the point we made electing them instead of the reps who DIDN'T support the bill LAST year..) and it will just make them more adamant to make smoking illegal in public places! Perfect idea!!
smoking ban
I think all us smokers should go to the state house for a day to get are words out about this smoking ban' what do you smokers think' please respound
It should be
It should be ban, do you know how many children get cancer just from ther parents smoking, and how many die...
If you only want to think about what you want, go right ahead, but I honestly think that it is important to ban smoking...
Do you know how many
Do you know how many children get cancer that have never been around smoke? The way you people are talking we should just stop living or breathing because it is going to kill us. You could walk out of your house tomorrow go to cross the street for work and get hit by a mack truck. What is your point. You eat certain foods and they can cause cancer. Come on people If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen and go back to playing nintendo; you are probably smarter at that.
It should ALL be?
As many children die from cancer due to their parents' smoking, many many more die from the swimming pool in their parents' back yard (as my brother nearly did). Shall we ban swimming pools, too?
Pools and cigarettes? PUHLEEEZ!
Yes, of course I believe cigarettes and swimming pools should be banned. You have to be an idiot not to. Legislation must be enacted to require existing privately owned swimming pools to be filled with soft foam, sealed and surrounded with warning signs. We can maintain swimming as a sport simply by giving discretion to the police over who or who cannot swim in government pools. All we need to do is have local police chiefs review the swimming ability of people who want to swim. If they pass a rigorous test, then a police officer can issue them a permit in 6-8 weeks at his discretion. There is so much we can do to save our children from the risks inherent in life. To any casual observer it is obvious that alcohol should be banned outright. I mean, it is a DRUG folks! THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN BY DOCTORS! GEEZ! I shudder every time I see non-childproofed cans of beer for sale. Some are even displayed in stacks low enough for a child to reach, blatantly demonstrating that they are marketing to children. I would get involved with that, but right now my pet political project is supporting a ban on military-style assault forks that are shockingly marketed toward blacks without their consent. We need to ban military-style assault forks so weapons stop causing drug violence by victimizing gang members. Privately owned swimming pools? Yeah, right. Only a homicidally abusive mother would even think of allowing her children in the vicinity of such a dangerous contraption. Folks, just call the police if you see something like that. This mess with pools is just one reason why I'm voting to re-elect Hillary. This country has A LOT of growing up to do.
Philosophy
Thank you for taking the time to post your comments here. I really do understand where you are coming from -- my own grandfather died a horrible smoking-related death (from emphysema.)
If you do want to understand where these anti-ban sentiments are coming from, I urge you to take just 8 minutes of your time to watch this animation.
Thanks again.
Smoking Ban
We live in a state that's motto is "Live Free or Die." I hope that others understand what that means. The issue of banning smoking goes against everything this state stands for. What? The majority of the Restaraunts and Night Clubs have a separate section for smoking/non-smoking. Might as well change our state motto too. What else is going to be taken away from us. Just like another commentor stated about "no eggs sonld here due to high cholestoral". I'm sorry but I was born and raised in NH and I totally disagree with the ban. I pay my taxes as everyone else who lives here.
Seperate sections for non-smoking is a joke
So you are intelligent enough to write a comment, but first won't identify yourself, and secondly, can't understand the concept that SMOKE DOESN'T KNOW NOT TO GO INTO THE NON-SMOKING SECTION..thereby creating an infrigement on MY rights as a non-smoker because the smoke then comes into MY lungs!
Maybe SMOKE is smarter than you?
smoking ban
Good for you' I think there all a bunch of u no maybe the democrats should be the ones to come to the bar' and tell us to put are smokes out .now give me a few beers' and thats a joke'how many democrats can go out a window at one time.
Just more proof of the caliber people who are smokers!
You make me laugh.....
smoking ban
I think the non smokers must pay more taxes than us smokers but think about how much money the state makes on our cigarette taxes
Thanks for your hard work on
Thanks for your hard work on this, Denis. I'm flattered that Sen. Gallus read my email on the floor. I've been asked to post the letter for others to read. Here it is in its entirety; Sen. Gallus omitted the portions that are italicized and in brackets:
Senator Gallus, thanks for taking the time to read the comments of a future constituent. I plan to transfer to Berlin as part of my job with the Bureau of Prisons. We are excited about the move[, and we sit down weekly and peruse the real estate websites (including yours), looking at new listings].
The very thing that draws us to New Hampshire --the state's spirit of liberty and independence-- is at stake with HB 1177. I despise smoking, but needless government restrictions on personal freedom are far worse.
Please vote against HB1177. It doesn't matter what the opinion polls say, because freedom must never be restricted by popular sentiment. Freedom that can be outlawed by the majority is no freedom at all. The only vote that should be taken on smoking in restaurants is the vote made by patrons, who choose to dine at restaurants with smoking, or without.
Please help keep NH what it is, and not mini-Massachusetts. Please vote against HB1177.
[Kevin Craig
Nash, Texas (soon to be Berlin, NH)]
I am against smoking in
I am against smoking in general because in public I may not always have the option of not becoming a passive smoker and that do damage my property of my body and associated clothing. If someone want to smoke I don't care if they do it where it doesn't have any possibility of damaging my property. I just don't want to file a claim for damaged property on everyone that subjects me or my property to passive smoking.
One could argue that I should be more careful of where I position myself. But why should I do that when I am not the problem in the first place?
Perhaps you are the problem.
Perhaps you are the problem. Others could argue that their liberties are being infringed upon and no matter how hard a smoker may try to keep out of "your way" he/she ends up in someone elses way.
So appreciate your freedom while you have it, unfortunately, even you must have a vice of some sort that someone else is itching to take from you.
I don't care if smokers
I don't care if smokers think they are in a different section of a bar or restaurant... your not. If you're in the building you're in the same section as me. I understand that every smoker holds the right to damage their own property with nitrosamines, benzpyrene ( tar that is irremovable from air, clothing and human hair)however what do I do to damage my own property...nothing. I enjoy smokeless air, I enjoy not having to smell for days or even weeks after enjoying a night out or a breakfast the next morning. It is your choice to smoke and kill yourself and damage your self for the rest of your life, why do I have to suffer for it. What’s next smoking in grocery stores or malls? Yes, this states motto is live free or die, not just DIE! I don’t agree with rising the taxes on children’s candies maybe just raise them on the price of cigarette’s or cigars. Lets really push the drug out.
Reply
Freedom of Choice and private property rights is what it's all about!
Bars and resturants are privately owned.
Right On!
"It doesn't matter what the opinion polls say, because freedom must never be restricted by popular sentiment." Is it okay if I quote you? Those words need to be read or heard by everyone in this nation.